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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:58 am 
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fordman428 wrote:
I'm gonna have to start making some calls and doing some math to figure out what I can actually do $ wise. I'm sure I will be happier with the stroker as most seem to be suggesting. I was almost ready to pull the trigger on a kit from Molnar a few weeks ago but they are out of 4 inch cranks until August.

Are the newer Scat forged cranks balancing without mallory now? I have read couple threads about them being all over the map but that was several years back. Molnar told me that their counterweights are cam ground and will always balance without mallory. Scat seems to be the only ones that do not publish a target bobweight.


None of the crankshaft companies will be able to say for sure whether their cranks will balance with no metal because they have no clue what your piston and rod weight are. I have had some 4340 Scats balance with no metal and some that just required one piece.

If I can be of any help, let me know. I’m direct with Scat and Molnar both and keep a lot of Cleveland parts on the shelf.

I do think I’d give the stock stroke a try.....I’ve done a lot of them and they are no slouch.

I also have a Scat 4340 crank here, has been offset ground to Honda rod journal and would be a 3.700” stroke if you’re looking for something in the middle. I’d sell it cheap.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:44 am 
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Location: B'ham, Alabama
fordman428 thanks for this thread, I'm in the same boat with my 72 Torino (4spd). I thought about going the big block route as well, but didn't want to have to remove the clutch z-bar and convert to a hydraulic clutch. Also there are no headers that are made for a manual BB 72+ Torino that I could find. Since I already have some vintage Hooker super comps I figure I will stick with the Cleveland. I've thought about going the 408 stroker route using the Molnar Centralign rods and a 4340 crank. Hopefully it would give me enough torque to get the car moving on the street. I've been stuck on deciding what type of heads to use. Currently I have the stock open chamber CJ heads. Most say toss them and find CC heads. I've also looked at the CHI 4V heads (need to keep stock 4V exhaust manifold location for headers). If any of you have suggestions on heads I'm open to hearing them.

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1972 Gran Torino Sport - 351CJ, Toploader, 4.11
2012 Mustang - 5.0, 6MT, 3.55


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:56 pm 
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fordman428 wrote:
I have looked at that one before and it sounds similar to what I want. Is that intake available in the US?


The 393 4V used a SCM dual plane manifold. Almost identical to a factory 4V, but can flow more than 650hp.

My advice would be;
4" 4340 (408) Scat crank, and a set of dished SRP or JE pistons.
deck the block, and go for as much compression you can, with the fuel you are using.
Bullet Racing (or someone else) can grind you a custom solid flat tappet for less than $230- I would want to see around 248-252@ 50 inlet and 258-260@50 exhaust and around .630+ lift on 110LSA
For a factory look, and great midrange grunt, go for a SCM dual plane http://www.scmenginedevelopments.com/manifolds.html
Otherwise a Strip Dominator (or similar) would be great for more top end power
850CFM and a good ignition, 1 7/8 headers and 3" X Pipe as you mentioned.

That should get you to 550-580hp and 530-550 ft/lb.

If you can get the power to the ground, you will run a low-mid 11 all day.

I ran 12.3@116 with 3.25s, top loader, 205/14 tyres and car was running like a pig, (with only 365 rear wheel HP at that time due to restrictive 2.5" exhaust). I bunny hopped off the line, the car had the grunt to run a mid 11 easily.

the extra 60-80ft/lb of torque from a 393 or 408 is what is gonna get your mid 11 sec alot easier than a 351 in a 4000lb car


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:06 pm 
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Wow, I need to charge more for custom cams.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:24 pm 
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MeanoTorino wrote:
fordman428 thanks for this thread, I'm in the same boat with my 72 Torino (4spd). I thought about going the big block route as well, but didn't want to have to remove the clutch z-bar and convert to a hydraulic clutch. Also there are no headers that are made for a manual BB 72+ Torino that I could find. Since I already have some vintage Hooker super comps I figure I will stick with the Cleveland. I've thought about going the 408 stroker route using the Molnar Centralign rods and a 4340 crank. Hopefully it would give me enough torque to get the car moving on the street. I've been stuck on deciding what type of heads to use. Currently I have the stock open chamber CJ heads. Most say toss them and find CC heads. I've also looked at the CHI 4V heads (need to keep stock 4V exhaust manifold location for headers). If any of you have suggestions on heads I'm open to hearing them.

Don't discount the oc head. Out of box they outflow all the cc heads hands down. If you going to throw them in junk pile pm me. You can almost get the the same point Jules mentioned with your heads but the reverse domes he mentions with cc heads are worth some power. However a good flat top and peel the heads down some get to same point.For a Pump gas motor i would not discount the oc head if you have already. We did a very mild oc motor to 480hp at 6000, motor was still in curve but owner wouldn't rev past 6k. Would've easily hit 500hp.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:48 am 
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I always thought the OC head would work out right at 10:1 with a 408, flat tops, and zero deck?

If that's the case, that's what I would go with considering you already have the heads.

When it comes to making torque, the more cubes you go with the more you make. A heavy street car will want the torque.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:37 am 
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Location: Orange County, NC
You lop .050 or so off the deck of that OC head and it will get you down to around 67 cc's.
Been there done that.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:25 pm 
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Location: Graham, Washington
MeanoTorino wrote:
fordman428 thanks for this thread, I'm in the same boat with my 72 Torino (4spd). I thought about going the big block route as well, but didn't want to have to remove the clutch z-bar and convert to a hydraulic clutch. Also there are no headers that are made for a manual BB 72+ Torino that I could find. Since I already have some vintage Hooker super comps I figure I will stick with the Cleveland. I've thought about going the 408 stroker route using the Molnar Centralign rods and a 4340 crank. Hopefully it would give me enough torque to get the car moving on the street. I've been stuck on deciding what type of heads to use. Currently I have the stock open chamber CJ heads. Most say toss them and find CC heads. I've also looked at the CHI 4V heads (need to keep stock 4V exhaust manifold location for headers). If any of you have suggestions on heads I'm open to hearing them.

Im glad this thread is helping others also. I wish my car was a 72, but I have mostly got over the ugliness and can appreciate it for what it is. My project kind of spun out of control when I took the nose off to replace a core support and right inner fender. Then all of a sudden I'm building headers, painting the front of the frame, painting the firewall, replacing the floor and now building and new engine. I think sticking with a Cleveland of whatever size is the right choice on an original Q code car.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:46 pm 
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Location: Graham, Washington
Thanks once again for all the advice. I am fully convinced that the 408 is the best way to go as most have suggested. That being said, I'm going to move forward with a 377 build based on Brent's crank. Maybe I'm demented but sometimes I just want to do things a different way. This setup seems like a good compromise with a few extra cubes and a pretty light rotating assembly. I always wanted a high winding small block that wants to be shifted at 7k or so and now have to think about all the other stuff like SFI flywheel, balancer and a scatter shield. If this doesn't work out and its miserable to drive and I hate it, there is no one to blame but me for wanting the wrong combination in the wrong car. It should be fun to find out though.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:05 pm 
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Location: B'ham, Alabama
fordman428 wrote:
Im glad this thread is helping others also. I wish my car was a 72, but I have mostly got over the ugliness and can appreciate it for what it is. My project kind of spun out of control when I took the nose off to replace a core support and right inner fender. Then all of a sudden I'm building headers, painting the front of the frame, painting the firewall, replacing the floor and now building and new engine. I think sticking with a Cleveland of whatever size is the right choice on an original Q code car.


Sounds like you are deep into your project. My car is sitting on jack stands right now waiting on me to put aftermarket control arms on the rear. I could never find replacement bushings for the factory competition handling control arms so my only option was aftermarket or stock non-comp arms and bushings. I agree with you on keeping the factory Cleveland. In my area you don't see too many Cleveland at car shows/ cruise-ins. Since it's not a track queen it will do all I need it to do. The main thing is does it put a smile on my face.

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1972 Gran Torino Sport - 351CJ, Toploader, 4.11
2012 Mustang - 5.0, 6MT, 3.55


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