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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:40 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:53 pm
Posts: 9
Location: California
Hello new to the forum and I need some advise on a 351 Cleveland build in a 72 mustang Mach 1.
Current mods are airgap intake, FITECH fuel injection and patriot long tube headers.

I know I am going to stroke it at some point 393 or 408.
I am currently looking at heads Trickflow 225 or 195 heads. Leaning more toward the 225 just because it’s a heavy car and I want all the horsepower and torque I can get. It’ll be a weekend car fun toy.
I wish to use 91 gas since I’m in California.
What do you guys think? 225 heads with a hydraulic roller cam?
I want to be over 430HP to the wheels eventually. Stroke first? Or heads n cam will be enough fun for the time being?

Thanks in advance :D


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 7:38 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:23 am
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Location: Texas
I say build the bottom end first. I originally planed to do a 408C. I bought the heads first (2012 when the Cleveland TF heads were still new to market). By the time I got to the machine shop I could not afford the stroker kit and balancing. I also planned to go solid roller but out of budget. I ended up with a stout 359C. Stock crank, Eagle h-beam rods/SRP .040 flat tops , Trick Flow 225 heads/TF intake, Brent spec Bullet solid flat cam, 750 Mighty Demon. 11:1 compression. Engine dynoed 520hp@6300 450Tq@5600 on the stand. I really wish I could have afforded my 408C solid roller though, bet it would be in the 630-650hp at flywheel.
I say build the bottom end and fill the stock Cleveland block if its not gonna be a street rod.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 10:12 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:53 pm
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Location: California
How much would you say you spent on the engine with those parts? Minus the intake and demon carb. On Trickflow heads did you go with 60 cc or 72 cc? I’m sold on getting the 225 version.
U running pump gas on that 11:1 compression ratio with no problem?
I’m thinking if I stroke it and pull out the engine I might as well do the entire build. But I’m scared of what that’ll cost me...US Dollars.
Honestly 520hp flywheel is actually nice. But of course we always want more. :D


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:37 pm 
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I'd do the foundation first and get the block machined and make a 408 out of it. Factory 4V heads will feed a 408 pretty well until it's time to upgrade.

A 408C with a 4V CHI head and a mild hydraulic roller will make 530-540 hp pretty easily with your intake manifold on pump gas.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:47 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:53 pm
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Location: California
Brent,

I think I have 2v heads. I’m pretty sure I do.
Will those stock 2v heads work with the 408 stroke? Or should I not even waste my time doing that.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:14 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:45 pm
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Je72,
If you decide on the 408 stroker I'd highly recommend you have Brent put a kit together for you. He put together a nice 408 package for me, I also bought chi 4v heads from him and am happy with the results. Tim


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:02 pm
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It all depends on your finances. If you can afford the stroker and alloy heads all at once, that's the best route to take.

Some would recommend going heads before a stroker. I'd recommend the stroker over the heads though, simply because you can do a head swap in car. So get the shortblock together with the parts you want, and if you're out of money, you can rebuild your current 2v heads and use them. Then when funds become available, you can swap to the better heads. Yes, the 2v heads will be a bottleneck on a 408. But, you can swap heads in car, I don't think anyone has ever swapped a rotating assembly in car.

But the best path for travel is to set aside the funds for the engine and do it all at once.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:13 pm 
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booyah45828 wrote:
It all depends on your finances. If you can afford the stroker and alloy heads all at once, that's the best route to take.

Some would recommend going heads before a stroker. I'd recommend the stroker over the heads though, simply because you can do a head swap in car. So get the shortblock together with the parts you want, and if you're out of money, you can rebuild your current 2v heads and use them. Then when funds become available, you can swap to the better heads. Yes, the 2v heads will be a bottleneck on a 408. But, you can swap heads in car, I don't think anyone has ever swapped a rotating assembly in car.

But the best path for travel is to set aside the funds for the engine and do it all at once.


Yep, agreed.

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brent@lykinsmotorsports.com


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:14 pm 
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je72 wrote:
Brent,

I think I have 2v heads. I’m pretty sure I do.
Will those stock 2v heads work with the 408 stroke? Or should I not even waste my time doing that.


It will, but it will be pretty underpowered until you swap heads.

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www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:34 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:23 am
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Location: Texas
Quote:
How much would you say you spent on the engine with those parts? Minus the intake and demon carb. On Trickflow heads did you go with 60 cc or 72 cc? I’m sold on getting the 225 version.
U running pump gas on that 11:1 compression ratio with no problem?


je72

If I remember my 359 was a tick over $10,000. Around $3,300 of that was machine work,labor and dyno time all from the same guy. Some can get it done cheaper if you have your own machines or if you have a friend or something. The intake was $400 and carb I bought back in 2010 or so and was $775. Now the same carb is like $840.

My heads I bought from Total Engine Airflow back in 2012. The T/F Cleveland heads were sill kinda new then. I got them fully assembled to my door for $2500. They are the fully cnc 225cc/115cc ports with 60cc chambers. I think these same heads are like $3300-$3800 now. Now remember, these exhaust ports are raised .100. Some here say thats not that much but I beg to differ on my 70 Cougar. I had to search for a 1 3/4 header to fit. Ended up with these and cut the collector at the point it reduced from 3" to 2.5" so I could have a 3" exit.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pte-h8407/make/ford

I can run it on pump gas but I try not too to often. 1st off pump gas with ethanol ruins the needle and seats,gaskets and diaphragms if it sits too long. 2nd, I just hate the smell of pump gas. 110 much nicer.

Like others and I stated, try to build it all at once but If you can't then defiantly build the bottom end first. If its not a street driven car that requires coolant then make sure you fill the block so you have that piece of mind if you start making 550+hp. Just be mindful what pistons you go with. Strokers make more compression and some use dish pistons and some use flat tops. Not sure your goal as far as street or street/strip or full race but you need to figure that out too for your compression goals.


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