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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:58 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:52 pm
Posts: 704
So far this has been a terrible experience. I've experimented with several different things to try to get the system to work and not die at idle and it just wont. Today I hooked it up differently so that the computer can control the timing thinking that having a short mag pickup lead from the distributor might be helpful. The problem is I can't keep the engine running long enough to set the base timing. It chug-a-lugs. Nasty. If mine is the typical experience I think Holley is in real trouble.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:23 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:23 am
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Location: Texas
Dave, have you tried running an open plenum intake? I have read all these self learning kits dont like duel plane intakes.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:01 am 
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nova467spanker wrote:
Dave, have you tried running an open plenum intake? I have read all these self learning kits dont like duel plane intakes.


No and I can't because this engine has to retain the stock Pantera air filter setup/fit under the engine cover. I did try going to a much thicker open gasket under the throttle body.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:25 pm
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Location: Stranded in Iowa - Better get the Breakdown squad out
DaveMcLain wrote:
nova467spanker wrote:
Dave, have you tried running an open plenum intake? I have read all these self learning kits dont like duel plane intakes.


No and I can't because this engine has to retain the stock Pantera air filter setup/fit under the engine cover. I did try going to a much thicker open gasket under the throttle body.


An Eddy Torker will fit under the OE Pantera engine cover but you'll need to mill the carb pad flat and use inserts to straighten out the mounting holes. ......or if the plenum configuration is really the problem, just mill out the divider in the DP intake. I take it this EFI system is mass flow...right? Not sure why dual plane would be a problem unless it somehow poses a problem for MAP sensor.

Best,
Kelly


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:02 pm
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I was under the impression that most bolt on efi kits were speed density.? At least all the ones I've seen don't have a MAF sensor.

If so, can you look at the live data and see if anything is acting funky, like pulsing map signals, eratic rpm, etc. I'm not sure if I could see how the dual plane would cause issues. Only if the map sensor was pulling from one side of the plenum, and the divider is so tall that it creates pulses instead of a steady signal.

That could cause issues. Maybe the power to the unit isn't clean and needs connected to a seperate battery? Maybe the controller is a dud and causing all the issues? Maybe there is a bad ground backfeeding somewhere.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:48 pm 
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Location: Texas
DaveMcLain

from the Holley forum

https://forums.holley.com/showthread.ph ... Dual-Plane


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:24 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:02 pm
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That's using a terminator system. Dave's using a sniper. Might be different, might not be.

Anyways, it sounds like he should try putting the biggest open spacer he can underneath the throttle body and see what it does. I'm sure he's got something laying around. That would simulate an open plenum that would be found in a single plane intake, and should eliminate any issues that could be present bank to bank.

Another thing that might make it act goofy on a dual plane would be the placement of the IAC valve in the throttle body. It has to have even access to both sides of the plenum, or the mixture will show lean on the better flowing side at idle.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:49 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:52 pm
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These are all good ideas to try and if I have to modify the intake manifold to make it work it isn't the end of the world. I think though that the root of the problem lies in what's causing the system to seem to reboot at idle. The hand held screen will momentarily flash no data and the tach which is driven by the computer will lose signal.

Thinking about it too with that in mind; when I ran the system where the computer was triggered via the tach signal from the 6AL box it never "shot ducks" out of the exhaust or back through the intake. Now when it is hooked up where the magnetic trigger from the MSD distributor feeds the computer which in turn drives the MSD box via the white wire it now does that just like you've switched the ignition off and then back on again.

I'm feeding power to the system directly from the battery cable so I don't think it is a power supply problem. I feed my dyno with a battery charger and I'm controlling that through a variac to keep the dyno voltage right at 13.5 volts all the time. I'm still thinking it is some sort of interference problem from the ignition system at low speeds even though moving the injection system's wiring harness and changing the plug wires and their routing didn't seem to help.

I have an e-mail in to Holley tech support so we'll see how they respond. It seems hard to believe that its a computer problem because it seems to work otherwise.

I'm thinking that it might be interesting to try a different ignition system. I'm going to look around and see if I have a points type distributor that I can just drop in to test and eliminate the MSD with its multiple sparks which are most numerous at and around idle speed..


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:49 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:41 pm
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Dave. I've been running a Sniper EFI on a 383C for about a year.
Motor has an Eldelbrock RPM Airgag manifold, so I don't think
the manifold is your problem. I also have a 1" spacer under the
Sniper. more for heat .Which MSD distributor are you using?
I had the 8350 ready to run dist. and found out it wont work with
the Sniper if you want timing control. I doubt this is the problem
on the dyno , but if I go over a bump to hard the system will reboot.
Motor doesn't die, but the screen goes blank then comes back on.
I only have 5" of vacuum at idle and the Sniper works well.
Chris


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:04 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:52 pm
Posts: 704
loditorino wrote:
Dave. I've been running a Sniper EFI on a 383C for about a year.
Motor has an Eldelbrock RPM Airgag manifold, so I don't think
the manifold is your problem. I also have a 1" spacer under the
Sniper. more for heat .Which MSD distributor are you using?
I had the 8350 ready to run dist. and found out it wont work with
the Sniper if you want timing control. I doubt this is the problem
on the dyno , but if I go over a bump to hard the system will reboot.
Motor doesn't die, but the screen goes blank then comes back on.
I only have 5" of vacuum at idle and the Sniper works well.
Chris


The distributor is the regular MSD Pro Billet one.

The system acts just like the one in this guy's video:

https://youtu.be/3kt9h_4wzYQ

See how it says no data in red letters, shoots ducks too.


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