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 Post subject: Air/fuel ratio meters
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:53 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:33 pm
Posts: 55
Can anyone recommend an air/fuel meter setup?
Looking at the innovate motorsports dual unit DLG-1, anyone used this setup?

Cheers,

Rob.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:57 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:23 am
Posts: 986
Location: Texas
Im not an expert but im guessing it makes a difference if your running a carb or fuel injection and depends on what fuel you will be running. Since I run a carb and the highest octane it will see is 110 Im thinking of getting this one. Anyone ever use this one?

Summit gauge
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g2997

I heard AEM makes this Summit gauge so im guessing it will be real good quality

AEM gauge
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/avm- ... /overview/


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:23 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:39 pm
Posts: 963
I use an old Innovate LM1 with a older laptop for tuning the door car. Snake the harness through the floor, haywire power and capture the data. Then I pull it all out. Requires a bung welded in a collector which I plug with a old 18mm spark plug base. Never saw the need to run a gauge full time - once the carb is set, it's set.

_________________
Chris - Merkel, TX
http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod
"Owner built, owner abused."


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:48 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:52 pm
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I have an old Innovate LM-1 that I don't use very often. It works ok and I have used it to do some data logging to gather information when working on a problem but overall I don't think its all that useful. First of all I've had a difficult time making the sensors that it uses(Bosch) last very long. I don't know how many I've had over the years but they don't seem to last even when using them only with unleaded fuels. This is part of the reason that I gave up having it on the dyno. It is also very easy to have it reset if the voltage feeding it drops much at all like when you crank the engine etc.

A friend of mine has the Fast one on his dyno and it seems to work better than the LM-1 so it might be better. I checked out that one that you see at Westech when they are running an engine on the Engine Masters' show and it is really expensive but that nice big readout is cool.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:47 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:04 am
Posts: 30
I have the same question. My machinist/dyno guy has used a Daytona Sensors dual channel unit for several years. It seems to work well. He just sold it to upgrade to an eight channel system. I missed out on buying his old meter so I'm in the market for a good dual channel, non-permanent installation meter. Ant and all input would be appreciated. Chuck


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:26 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:59 am
Posts: 11
I have used their products for years... Have their single A/F gauge on a v-twin with over 30,000 miles of use, never had an issue. Plan to use the DLG on my upcoming 351c build.

If you are just running a gauge... they are very good, If you are planning a complete electronic system and data logging then there are other products that are better.

If A/F is new to you, the biggest issue is to install the sensors correctly into the pipe... the correct locations [does not always meant the same for both sides... they need to be equal in performance to each other] and there effect... distance from valve changes the readings, curves affect the readings... there are a number of PDF's Bosch webpage has details as does MoTeC...

hum... seems they been changing their web documents... but here is an old Bosch document, section 9 has instal data. http://www.waltech.com/wideband-files/b ... asheet.htm

Also, A/F is affected by fuel type & affects the A/F ratio... and A/F ratio to Lambda numbers ...
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/wideband-oxygen-sensor/

Why is it important? because a man that wears two watches never knowns what time it is... same for two sensors, or eight... which one is correct lol


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 11:08 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:52 pm
Posts: 539
Q1svt wrote:
I have used their products for years... Have their single A/F gauge on a v-twin with over 30,000 miles of use, never had an issue. Plan to use the DLG on my upcoming 351c build.

If you are just running a gauge... they are very good, If you are planning a complete electronic system and data logging then there are other products that are better.

If A/F is new to you, the biggest issue is to install the sensors correctly into the pipe... the correct locations [does not always meant the same for both sides... they need to be equal in performance to each other] and there effect... distance from valve changes the readings, curves affect the readings... there are a number of PDF's Bosch webpage has details as does MoTeC...

hum... seems they been changing their web documents... but here is an old Bosch document, section 9 has instal data. http://www.waltech.com/wideband-files/b ... asheet.htm

Also, A/F is affected by fuel type & affects the A/F ratio... and A/F ratio to Lambda numbers ...
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/wideband-oxygen-sensor/

Why is it important? because a man that wears two watches never knowns what time it is... same for two sensors, or eight... which one is correct lol


I've heard from a good source that Hendrick Motorsport used to use a Brigg's and Stratton engine to check their O2 sensors to make sure that they all read the same. I just wonder what the tolerance really is on the sensors and how much difference it really makes.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:22 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:59 am
Posts: 11
DaveMcLain wrote:
I've heard from a good source that Hendrick Motorsport used to use a Brigg's and Stratton engine to check their O2 sensors to make sure that they all read the same. I just wonder what the tolerance really is on the sensors and how much difference it really makes.


I DID NOT MEAN THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN O2 SENSORS... there is a little

But that the issues are with the install... inside curve, outside curve of a pipe has much different affect on the readings... the wiring along causes issues, MANY do not understand that [for ones we're talking about] the sensor uses outside air to compare to... that air is pulled via the wiring harness, so a simple bend, or if someone shorten the harness you'll get a FU reading...

Also, it's really hard to use just the gauge to tune with... to many other things are needed, temp, rpm, load, etc... If buying it just for a gauge I would stick to just one sensor Use an X-pipe fitting in the exhaust, and weld the bung to it... you will get a decent reading for the motor

With good data logging you are running one sensor per cylinder... then you'll get a different reading per cylinder. we know that the 351c carb intakes have the 4 end/corner cylinders running leaner that the middle 4, front 2 are different than the back 2. Most times someone has a gauge without understand all the complexities, generally think the gauge is off aka a difference between two watches lol

Edited: after thinking about it Hendrick's might need to test their because of the fuel used... shortens there life a lot
More info than anyone will want to know lol http://alflash.com.ua/for/section_A.pdf


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