www.the351cforum.com

ALL things related to the Ford 351C
It is currently Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:29 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:37 am
Posts: 27
Other than weight savings is there a big benefit for going with edelbrock aluminum heads over refurbishing the stock ones? If so what are they? I plan on running a large roller cam I got from a forum member which will require adjustable valve train so there will be an added expense of drilling the stock heads for screw in studs and guide plates.

So what should I do?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:49 pm
Posts: 482
Location: Orange County, NC
What's the ultimate goal for the car?
I am incredibly underwhelmed by the Edelbrock heads. They may be cheaper than refurbishing stock heads, but in my opinion, in a hot street/mild strip application they will make less power. And once you go even more race oriented, they fall even farther behind.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:37 am
Posts: 27
kv racing wrote:
What's the ultimate goal for the car?
I am incredibly underwhelmed by the Edelbrock heads. They may be cheaper than refurbishing stock heads, but in my opinion, in a hot street/mild strip application they will make less power. And once you go even more race oriented, they fall even farther behind.



My car is a 72 mach 1 351c 4v with factory 4 speed and posi. Goal is a mild restomod. Here is the cam I have. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-32-602-8/overview/make/ford

A member on the mach 1 forum recommended these instead of the edelbrocks. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-51616203-c00/overview/ With all the work I would have to do with the stock heads it seems I would be looking at only a few $100 more dollars to go with new aluminum's???

Looking for a good running tire burner.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:05 am
Posts: 2459
The Edelbrocks probably won't offer any performance over the stock heads without port work.

The Trick Flows will offer more performance than the factory heads, but if I were to go with new ones, I'd go CHI.

However, with factory, untouched heads, you could still have a nice tire-burner. I made 620 hp with a 354ci engine, with no port work, except for a good valve job.

I think I'd skim the deck surfaces on the factory heads, cut the guides for modern valve seals, and drill/tap for rocker studs and guide plates. You won't have as much in them as what you're thinking, unless the seats are in horrible shape, guides are worn out, etc.

You will be thoroughly disappointed with that camshaft. It's way too large for a street hydraulic roller engine that's not stroked. Even with a 408, I think it would be larger than what you would need. It will sound good and that's about it.

_________________
Brent Lykins, Lykins Motorsports
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:23 am
Posts: 947
Location: Texas
Yes Brent your 354 was a screamer for sure but you also had 12:1 compression, you worked those 4v heads,had a 1050 Holley on it and in your own words "Well, final numbers are 615 hp @ 8000 rpm, with 468 lb-ft @ 5700" Im guessing he doesn't want to turn the motor that high and maybe he doesnt have the money it would take for a machinist/engine builder to do what you did in house.

Brent, so why not the Trick Flow 225 cnc heads? I think my 359c did very well with them and the TF intake and 750 Mighty Demon. My engine would love a 4spd.

Here is my build. I bought all the parts and I got my cam from Brent along with my rocker arms,lifters, valve springs and some other stuff. I bought my heads from Total Engine Airflow back in 2012 and they were $2500 to my door. I believe they are higher now but still worth it. Total build was $10,000 - thats parts, machining, labor and dyno time.

Build
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=242

Dyno
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=259

Last month 1/4 mile run against a supercharged 700 plus wheel hp Vette. He had drag radials. My converter stalls around 3200. I need a 5000 - thats why I think my motor would love a 4spd. I have other videos if you want to see them, just change the last number after (My 70 Cougar)
https://youtu.be/o5tG0J_etNk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:05 am
Posts: 2459
Yep, those are my own words, but it goes to show the capability of a factory head. It was completely unported, but if you assume a general rule of thumb of 2 hp per cfm, you're looking at over 300 cfm from a factory head. Doesn't take that much to get them working.

I've never been a Trick Flow fan, no matter if it's Cleveland, Windsor, etc. I think they may have a better Windsor head, but in the Cleveland world, I think the CHI piece is the chicken dinner.

I've ordered several sets of heads from TEA before. They are supposed to be the "special division" of TFS, which does custom port work. I've went round and round with that guy in that if you leave the spark plug out of the heads and flow them, they do pretty much what they're advertised to do. :roll:

_________________
Brent Lykins, Lykins Motorsports
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:37 am
Posts: 27
blykins wrote:
You will be thoroughly disappointed with that camshaft. It's way too large for a street hydraulic roller engine that's not stroked. Even with a 408, I think it would be larger than what you would need. It will sound good and that's about it.


I would be disappointed even with the 4 speed and a 4:10 gear??? I only have $35 in the cam but would like to use it if possible. I have no intention of putting the car on the track just want a mean sounding lump but it needs to at least idle and have a responsive throttle.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:05 am
Posts: 2459
243/257 @ .050" is a very large cam for a street 351.

Keep in mind that with factory heads, a 408 ci displacement, and a solid roller of similar size, I have peaked the hp at 6500 with a 7000 rpm shift point.

You have ~50 cubes less and are looking at better flowing heads.....both of those will require much less camshaft.

In addition, to even take advantage of the higher rpm characteristics of that cam in a 351, you would have to be on game with your lifters, valve spring pressures, and lifter preload.

Yes, you will have a rumpety idle, but your powerband will be severely limited. Also, if you have power brakes, you can pretty much say goodbye to having enough vacuum to run them.

If you had about 15-20 degrees less duration, you'd be in a good spot. However (and please don't take offense to this), this is where a lot of guys go wrong with camshafts....all too often guys go way too big and then you end up with zero bottom end and zero top end both. It leaves you with an engine that won't have much response at any rpm you choose to be at.

_________________
Brent Lykins, Lykins Motorsports
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:05 am
Posts: 2459
FWIW, I built a 357C for a guy that used factory heads, a Blue Thunder intake and a hydraulic roller that he supplied....230/236 @ .050”. It peaked at 6200. Something like that would be better suited for a street car with 4.10 gears.

Those Thumpr cams in street cars are not optimal at all and are really just meant to sound mean.

_________________
Brent Lykins, Lykins Motorsports
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:39 pm
Posts: 904
blykins wrote:
However, with factory, untouched heads, you could still have a nice tire-burner. I made 620 hp with a 354ci engine, with no port work, except for a good valve job.

I think I'd skim the deck surfaces on the factory heads, cut the guides for modern valve seals, and drill/tap for rocker studs and guide plates. You won't have as much in them as what you're thinking, unless the seats are in horrible shape, guides are worn out, etc.



One factor not mentioned is cost. Here, the above work - valve job, new valves, stud work, spring seats, etc, etc runs nearly $1200. For $1600 I can by AFD 4V bare that flow like ported iron 4Vs, but with less work to do. I would say that if you can find a "deal" on a set of closed 4V already cut for studs, you'll save a bunch. But you have to find local - heads run 55 lbs each, not cheap to ship UPS or FedEx.

_________________
Chris - Merkel, TX
http://raceabilene.com/kelly/hotrod
"Owner built, owner abused."


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group