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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:27 am 
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Location: Texas
Moved my oil topic here.
Ok, so I have been running the VR1 strait 50 in my 359C. As stated in another post I don't know what the bearing clearances are but the engine was built bay a very reputable man so the quality and attention to detail is not my concern. He told me to run strait 50 in it so since I drained the break in oil it has only had VR1 50. I have an Autometer Pro Comp electric oil gauge and cold start is around 75psi and after warmed up 60 at idle warmed up. Looking at my dyno sheet the engine held 68-70 psi through the whole rpm range. So some of you guys are saying 50W is to thick and should try thinner oil. Question is how much thinner and what about in the 100* Texas summer? Also, I went with the VR1 oil because rumour (at the time in 2013) was Rotella had decreased the amount of minerals these flat tappet cams need. Anyone else able to confirm or deny this? I'm not opposed to Rotella as long as it has VR1 or better properties.

Matt


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:55 am 
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Location: Texas
This is the extra qt of break in oil he gave me. There is no viscosity printed on the front and the rear label is not in best shape. So I use the ol google machine and saw this is 15W-50. It appears the label has changed but the skew number is the same on my bottle as new look. #00106. So this is what he used to break it in with. One of my racing buddy here did say the 15w-50 is thinner than strait 50 and to give that a try first and see what the oil pressure looks like before going to a 30W. Who knows, Rick might have just built it loose, I wish I had the bearing clearances to know exactly.

Imageoil by 359daddy, on Flickr


New look

Imageoil1 by 359daddy, on Flickr


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:57 am
Posts: 242
Gday,
Trust your engine man, don’t overthink it
Rotella has lost a lot of zinc, forget it.
That br oil is a 15/50 but only just, closer to a 40 than a 50.
Goes to water when you give it a good flogging in high temps.
If he built it with decent clearances stick with what what he told you, vr1 race oil is good stuff,
Just let it warm up before you beat on it, you want to see 160f of oil temp before flogging it.
Your oil pressures are spot on, don’t 2nd guess him and risk it.
Ran straight 50 in race cars for years, if your not chasing every hundredth it’s not an issue.
Cheers


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:49 pm
Posts: 1340
Location: Orange County, NC
My guess is the pressure is so high the bypass is stuck open. When I switched mine to 20-50 petroleum I could tell when it was stuck. It only had 60 psi cold and the needle never moved, it sat rock solid. Once warmed up a bit it only dropped to about 50 but the needle moved with the lope of the cam, and when I goosed the throttle it would go over 70.

I still think straight 50 is too heavy for anything but a big blower motor. If he built it with clearances so loose it has to have oil that thick, I might not trust it anyways. Plus some of those old school engine builders are still of the mindset heavier oil is better. Doesnt mean they dont know their stuff when it comes to machining parts, it just means some of their mindset is still stuck in 1982.

It's your motor so you have to do what you are comfortable with regardless of what me or anyone else says.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2021 6:39 pm 
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Location: Texas
tuffxf

my routine at the track is to start the car and i then let it roll off my trailer. I keep the rpms around 1500 or so until its 140 degrees or so. By that time it usually decides to behave to idle on its own. Then I let it cycle the water once (180 t-stat) and shut it off. I let it sit there for a bit to let the motor heat radiate while I fill out my tech card and put stuff away like car ramps. Then I drive it to get tech. Then I drive it to get fuel and run it through the gears. Then back to my spot to recheck lug nuts and air pressures and then go run it.

kv racing

the oil pressure cold is around 75. After warmed up and at idle in gear it sits around 55-60. Put it in neutral and give it some peddle and it will go 70-75. The old VDO electric gauge use to read around 5psi higher than this Autometer Sport Comp.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:01 am 
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I worked for the Valvoline engine lab for a few years before I started my business. I love VR1 oil and use it in all of my roller cam engines.

With that being said, I run Brad Penn in my flat tappet engines.

A straight 50W oil is 50W all the time.

A split viscosity oil, such as 10W-30 is a 10W when it's cold and a 30W when it's hot. That's why you see a lot of oils used like that, so they will offer the correct viscosity depending on what temperature your engine is operating at.

15W-50 is only thinner when it's cold, but that's good, because your engine will benefit from a thinner oil when you first start it.

I run .003-.0035" main bearing clearances on some race engines and have never used anything thicker than a 20W-50. On some of my pulling truck engines, I'll run 20W-50 and my guys will have an oil tank heater.

I can't imagine you have clearances looser than that. I'd try a Brad Penn 20W-50 if you want to try something else.

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www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:45 am 
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Location: Texas
Well the Brad Penn is not readily available off the shelf for me unless i go pick it up from Summit. Yes i know its only a 30 min drive for me but that's not always the case. Construction has been a real beast and not long ago that 30 min drive turned into 30 mins driving and 2 hours of sitting in traffic- one way. Would you suggest the VR1 20w-50 as a second choice? I'm guessing my oil pressure will read lower with the 20w-50?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:01 am 
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Oil pressure will be a little lower when cold I would assume.

I don’t really like VR1 for flat tappets.

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www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:01 pm 
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We ran 20w50 in the dirt late models and modifieds. They were all sbc based roller motors 400+inches ran near 8000rpm. VR1 synthetic was used in the late models that burned vp110. And we ran the cheapest conventional 20w50 in the modifieds that were burning methanol. The modifieds seemed to milk the oil so fast on methanol, that we(us and the builder) made the decision to run cheaper oil with more frequent changes. Bearing life and engine longevity wasn't affected by the switch. 9 quarts of vr1 being changed every 3 weeks-month got to be expensive.

We were given a case of joe gibbs stuff from lake speed around 2010. It was good stuff, and was worth a dozen HP on the dyno, but the cost of it compared to vr1 made the vr1 a better choice. We had a sponsorship through napa, and were given a pretty good deal on vr1 and wix racing filters.

As far as a straight 50w though, I'd never run that. 20w50 is the same cost to me and will help with starting and likely reduce wear.

Matt, are you running an HV pump and HP spring with straight 50w?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 7:25 pm 
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Location: Texas
blykins

Not to argue but why not the vr1 with flat tappets? Other than Brad Penn or Joe Gibbs what would be the next in line? Amsoil? Royal Purple? I mean If I have to I will get the Brad Penn but if I'm able to get it off the shelf from a parts store then Im for that too.

booyah45828

Its a Melling HV pump but not sure about HP spring. I bought it from Brent when I got my cam and EDM lifters. I'm sure my engine builder didn't change the spring. Pump is a M-84AHV


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