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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:42 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:57 am
Posts: 242
The spring has not been changed with the pressure readings you mentioned.
Why do you want to change?
The new penn grade is not the same as the old Brad penn.
It has a different base oil.
I don’t see where your issue is, I wouldn’t have put a hv pump in a flat tappet engine but I wouldn’t go to the trouble of changing it,
20/50 or straight 50 if you warm it up properly is no dramas whatsoever, if you panic, put a stick on Peterson pan heater on it.
Run a 20/50 in winter, straight 50 in summer if you want.
Good 20/50 oils are torco tr1 and driven gp1, don’t put that purple stuff in anything now days
Talk to your engine builder first,
Cheers


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:28 am 
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Matt, you can't just order Brad Penn/Penngrade from Summit/Amazon/etc.? How often do you change oil?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:42 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:23 am
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Location: Texas
tuffxf

Well I have the Tmeyer restricted cam bearings and Comp EDM lifters if that makes a difference with running 50 with a flat cam. Brent got me the Bullet cam, lifters,springs and oil pump so I figure he knew my combo with that pump etc... Honestly if I don't have to change my oil then I wont but a few guys on here were baffled I was running strait 50. I'm not opposed to changing if it will help.

blykins

I don't change the oil often. I only changed it recently because it was last years oil and I was only running the engine with alot of idle time when trying to figure out my cooling issues and when I was testing the new radiator/fan set up. The old oil had a little fuel smell so I changed it a couple months ago. Now I have been fighting leaky oil plug issue. I figured before putting what I drained out back in I would see what you pros thought of the VR1 50 I use now.

So this is not the Brad Penn/Penngrade oil from Summit?

https://www.summitracing.com/search/dep ... apenngrade


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:22 am 
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Yes, that is the Penngrade/Brad Penn.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:18 am 
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FWIW - I run 10w30 VR1 in everything. Used it in the flat tappet motors too. Run it in the dragster. Used to run 30wt in the 393C but it costs more and why. I can get VR1 10w-30 about anywhere, including Walmart. With a good carb on methanol, I change oil twice a year. The 302 is still a flat tappet engine, no problems. And it ran on moca latte for it's first 10 minutes years ago, thanks to an intake leak. Cleaned it up, re-ran the break in, same cam/lifters still in the motor.

2006 -
Image

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:49 pm 
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Location: Texas
blykins

well this is good that Summit carries the Brad Penn oil now. So this is the one you were saying I should try? Also, why do you not like the VR1 for flat tappet cams?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/bpo-71196

Falcon67

For the exception of the break in oil I have only run VR1 50 . I was gonna run Rotella since its easy off the shelf but heard rumours of them skimping out on the minerals. I ran Royal Purple in my 03 Ram Hemi 2 consecutive oil changes and saw no difference in fuel mileage like they claimed. Alot of people love the Amsoil stuff.

I just looked up the difference between the two oils as far as their zink and the Penn is higher. Brent, what other benefits have you seen with the Penn oil? Does it not foam as easy/much? I'm defiantly looking for the better stuff to protect my investment.

The Penn-Grade 1® oils "typical" 1,500 ppm Zinc (Zn) and 1340-1400 ppm Phosphorus (P)

Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil (conventional) Zinc (1300 PPM)


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:41 pm 
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G,day,
You trusted someone enough to build your engine / investment, don't you trust his advice?
Paul


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:38 am 
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My guess is that there was a communication gap somewhere as the builder gave him some 15W-50 break-in oil, which makes more sense.....15W-50 or 20W-50 is what I would reach for on a loose bearing race motor.

I can't think of any reason why anyone would need to run a straight 50W oil in a Cleveland. You can't build them loose enough to need it cold.

I'll tell on myself and tell a little story....

I built an engine once and either I had a tremendous lack of intelligence, or someone packaged bearings wrong, but I put a set of standard main bearings on a crank that had been turned .010". My Mitutoyo bore mic goes to .005" so I didn't catch it on the mic. Built the engine, took it to the dyno. Had VR1 10W-30 in it. Had 60 lbs of cold oil pressure on start-up (little low, that's what triggered me to know something wasn't right) and still had 12-15 psi with 180° oil temp at idle. If the average Joe had built this engine in his garage, he wouldn't have known any different, because there was no indication that anything was wrong with this engine. I'm just used to seeing specific oil pressures and when I didn't, I knew something was up.

The point is, even with .012" of main bearing clearance (yes, 12 not 1.2), I still had plenty of hot oil pressure at idle to keep the engine going and it even had 65 psi at WOT on the dyno.

Matt, it's not that I don't like VR1 for flat tappet cams, it's that I have never used it with flat tappet cams. Flat tappets are something that you really don't mess with the recipe because you don't want to end up wiping a cam down and having to change it. I've used Brad Penn for a very long time with flat tappets and I know that it works for break-in and after break-in. I can't vouch for VR1 because I have never used it for a flat tappet. Not to say it wouldn't work, just to say that I can't recommend it because I don't have experience with it.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:16 am 
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Location: Texas
tuffxf

Thinking about what Brent said about I might have misunderstood my guy about what oil to use could be a big possibility. I know I was driving when I called him about it and he might have said 20w 50 and I could have hear only the 50 part.

blykins

He gave me that qt of break in oil because mine takes 5qt and I guess bought and charged me for 6. Good thing I got it though because that at least showed me what he used.

As for the VR1 comparison, fair enough you have not used it so you have no feed back. I asked a few other racing buddies and they use the Penn/Penngrade 15w-50 and 20w-50. Tomorrow I will order this https://www.summitracing.com/parts/bpo-71196 and get a new filter from O'Reilly's the day I will put oil in. I use the Wix filter but not the Wix Racing filter. Not sure what real difference there is between those two. So this oil is Semi-Synthetic. What will that do, just keep the engine clean inside. I think I read the Penn oil doesn't have detergents in it.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:52 pm 
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For the milk picture I posted, I started with 10w-30 VR1 and Crane break in lube. After washing out the crap and running a bunch of diesel through the motor with the oil pump, I went right back in with same. That's a 216/228 flat tappet hydro Crane and it's still in the engine.

Everything else now is roller and I'd really rather do without than run flat tappet anymore. The last flat I ran was a 238/248 Crane solid. It came out of one engine fine (2 seasons), went into a replacement 351C. Same lifters - Isky direct lube with the hole in the face - on the the same lobes. 4th pass the car ran way off. After checking a zillion things I checked the lift at the rockers - #8 exhaust was nearly round. That was the last flat around this garage. Went to a hydro roller.

> Had 60 lbs of cold oil pressure on start-up (little low, that's what triggered me to know something wasn't right)
Great story! Checking my notes against yours - I would have expected in the 70~75 PSI range cold on .0025 area clearances, 30ish hot idle, 60 PSI running.

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