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 Post subject: windage tray
PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:46 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:08 pm
Posts: 44
Hello
What windage tray are you guys using?
I have a canton #20-935 it is a screen type.. Should i use that or a louvered tray
Thanks
Rich


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 Post subject: Re: windage tray
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:20 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:05 am
Posts: 2881
I don't use windage trays.

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Brent Lykins, Lykins Motorsports
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com


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 Post subject: Re: windage tray
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:23 am
Posts: 1452
Location: Texas
I hear windage trays are really necessary with long stroke applications where the crank and rods goes deeper in the pan. Its proven necessary for windage and oil control. Now im not sure its actually necessary with a Cleveland - I mean hell we dont even have to clearance the bottom end for most stroker kits- but I do know with the X-Brand crap aka chevy stuff - they need this stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: windage tray
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:14 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:05 am
Posts: 2881
A deep oil pan is the best thing you can have. I've never seen any indication on the dyno or in cars where a windage tray is/has been beneficial. In some cases a windage tray can even keep the oil from draining back to the pan effectively. I don't use them at all.

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 Post subject: Re: windage tray
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:24 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:02 pm
Posts: 468
We used the screen type when we were circle track racing.

It was there to catch the oil flying off the rotating assembly and hitting the oil in the pan, which would cause aeration in the oil.

Not sure if it worked or was necessary, just something we did.

I have a screen type from canton for my cleveland if I ever get around to building it.


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 Post subject: Re: windage tray
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:28 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:23 am
Posts: 1452
Location: Texas
Brent, its science sir. Maybe with some poor designed windage trays - then maybe it can cause an oil drain back problem. I have never heard or read anyone complaining about that issue though. Not sure if anyone has MOTORTREND on DEMAND but if anyone here does then look up the.

Engine Masters
How Oil Kills Power!
Season 3•Episode 32

They test to much oil, to little oil , stock vs windage tray etc....


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 Post subject: Re: windage tray
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 6:57 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:05 am
Posts: 2881
Sorry, I’m not of that opinion. And science doesn’t work the same with every engine. Skirted blocks don’t behave the same way as non skirted, deep pans don’t behave the same as shallow, etc.

There are indeed brands of trays that don’t drain, it’s worse in the FE world than the Cleveland world but it’s still an issue.

You won’t find one in my stuff and that’s based on my own dyno testing.

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Brent Lykins, Lykins Motorsports
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com


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 Post subject: Re: windage tray
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:57 am
Posts: 236
G,day,
Used to race a cleveland powered class 8 off road race truck back in the mid 80's, big deep pan.
Throw that thing sideways into a corner at 80mph+ and the oil would keep going with momentum up the cylinder walls into the chambers and foul plugs on whichever bank depending on which way the corner was.
would misfire for a few seconds then clear.
Fitted a well designed louvered tray and completely fixed it.
There is a lot in sump design, windage trays / screens / kickouts etc and probably no blanket rules.
dyno is a lot different to the car where we have g forces on launch or cornering if thats your thing.
There was a lot in my off road car, and a lot in my drag car also.
Cheers


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 Post subject: Re: windage tray
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 3:34 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:05 am
Posts: 2881
Paul, that would be an outlier application I would think. Was that on a SBF?

I didn't mean to state that the dyno was the only thing that's important. Obviously, dynos don't move LOL (or they're not supposed to....)

You all know me, I hate generalized statements and I feel that saying, "every engine needs a windage tray" is an untrue statement. On some engines, such as the Ford FE, that have skirted blocks, the windage tray that covers almost the entire pan rail can indeed cause oil drainback issues and it also can trap a lot of crankcase pressure.

On other Fords, I have not seen any evidence of power addition with the use of a windage tray. If there was, it was well within the tolerances of a dyno. And I know that we are talking about other benefits beyond horsepower addition, but if an oil pressure gauge doesn't wiggle at the end of a 140 mph pass, or the end of a 15 second WOT sled pull, I'm having trouble believing that a tray would be beneficial.

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www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com


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 Post subject: Re: windage tray
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:48 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:02 pm
Posts: 468
Right. I don't see a street cruiser having much benefit from it. Or a drag car that runs for 6 seconds and then shuts off.

Our Late model engine builder years ago saw oil aeration/pressure issues that he said were alleviated with installing a tray, so we installed one with every build. That was SBC though, so not apples to apples.

My cleveland will likely be street with very rare strip time. The only reason I have the tray is because it and the studs for it came with the canton oil pan for the price of the pan.

On any engine with a skirted block, I could see where a tray could cause drainback issues. Every LS engine came with a tray from the factory, although they're not nearly as blocking as one for an FE. I don't think you'd have those issues with a screen so much.


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