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 Post subject: Re: 377C dyno results
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:21 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:58 pm
Posts: 214
blykins wrote:
Just depends on the intensity of the lobe. I exclusively use Morel lifters and they are quiet with the lobes I use.

I would expect the cam to hang on a little longer too, dropping 35 hp in 200 rpm isn’t normal. Those aggressive lobes need a lot of spring pressure.


Brent, from what I've seen the Morels are hit and miss with the noise issues. Plenty of guys are having the same issues. I've used them exclusively for hydro rollers as well but moving away from them now .

I don't think that combo would perform any better with more spring, been there and done that on hydraulic stuff and it didn't work.


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 Post subject: Re: 377C dyno results
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:58 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:33 pm
Posts: 57
Thanks for the input, guess I'll just run with it for now, try a 30 weight next oil change and see how it goes...... :D


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 Post subject: Re: 377C dyno results
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:52 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:33 pm
Posts: 57
One thing I forgot to mention, the engine builder made a small stuff up, he neglected to install spring locators, I noticed after the dyno session when I had re-installed engine back in car and had rocker covers off that the valve stem seal clamps were coming off the seals, some had come off and were around valve stem. The springs were clearly moving around a bit and rubbing but seals were still in place.
The builder was most embarrassed and promptly sorted locators.
Could this have contributed to the valve train instability at top end?


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 Post subject: Re: 377C dyno results
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:04 am 
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Posts: 2603
Well, if it didn't have locators and the install height was measured with them, then your valve spring pressures were then too low by a factor of .060".

And yes, if there were no locators, then the spring was not constrained and was probably out of control.

It would probably be worthwhile to dyno it again.

Russ,

The only time I've heard a noisy Morel was when they were faulty. It happens, like every other manufacturer, but it doesn't happen often. The main proponent of noise is the cam lobe to me, and on a street engine I'll keep the hydraulic intensity at 55° and above to make for a quiet camshaft and valvetrain system. In the past several years I've made all kinds of discoveries related to different hydraulic roller setups and I've found that most guys run cam lobes that are way too aggressive, combined with heavier valvetrain than what they should have. Comp Xtreme Energy and XFI lobes are the ones that most guys go to and they are noisy as anything. I've had great results from Thumpr lobes, QXX, HUC, and HLO lobes.

We are used to seeing guys with SBC's and SBF's rev to the moon with hydraulic rollers because they have itty bitty valves and smaller lifters, but it takes some effort to get some engines (Clevelands, FE's, etc.) to rpm with large valves, link bar lifters, etc. There used to be a 6000-6200 rpm ceiling with a Ford FE that everyone had trouble getting past. Going to the right cam lobe and some lighter rocker arms and other components made it do-able.

Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_JY47anClA

To my knowledge, that is the first and only 7500 rpm hydraulic roller FE in existence. If I would have had more camshaft, it would have went higher. 542 hp @ 7000, 539 @ 7300, and pulled to 7500 cleanly.

If I were to get away from Morels, I don't know who I'd use. I don't like Comp lifters as they require a heavier oil and have a reputation for not pumping up. Lunati and Howards lifters are made by Morel. Cranes are too heavy and frankly too expensive. I can buy a short travel Morel lifter at retail price and still have $100-150 left over for the price of a Crane...LOL

_________________
Brent Lykins, Lykins Motorsports
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com


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 Post subject: Re: 377C dyno results
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:18 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:58 pm
Posts: 214
Brent I'm not sure if you frequent YB anymore but the tech section has a lot of guys with noise issues with those lifters. In most cases they're not faulty but for a Hyd lifter they sure seem noisy to me.

You're right of course about the Hyd roller in a Cleveland. One of the biggest issues I see is poor parts selection and a subsequent rev ceiling under 6000 rpm. It can be done but it ain't cheap and requires someone with prior knowledge in that department.
Hell, my only wish is that the Aussie dollar climb out of the gutter again and be on par with the U.S dollar. The price of some bits is double compared to what you guys pay!
I'll send you a pm re lifters.


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 Post subject: Re: 377C dyno results
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:52 pm
Posts: 598
blykins wrote:
Well, if it didn't have locators and the install height was measured with them, then your valve spring pressures were then too low by a factor of .060".

And yes, if there were no locators, then the spring was not constrained and was probably out of control.

It would probably be worthwhile to dyno it again.

Russ,

The only time I've heard a noisy Morel was when they were faulty. It happens, like every other manufacturer, but it doesn't happen often. The main proponent of noise is the cam lobe to me, and on a street engine I'll keep the hydraulic intensity at 55° and above to make for a quiet camshaft and valvetrain system. In the past several years I've made all kinds of discoveries related to different hydraulic roller setups and I've found that most guys run cam lobes that are way too aggressive, combined with heavier valvetrain than what they should have. Comp Xtreme Energy and XFI lobes are the ones that most guys go to and they are noisy as anything. I've had great results from Thumpr lobes, QXX, HUC, and HLO lobes.

We are used to seeing guys with SBC's and SBF's rev to the moon with hydraulic rollers because they have itty bitty valves and smaller lifters, but it takes some effort to get some engines (Clevelands, FE's, etc.) to rpm with large valves, link bar lifters, etc. There used to be a 6000-6200 rpm ceiling with a Ford FE that everyone had trouble getting past. Going to the right cam lobe and some lighter rocker arms and other components made it do-able.

Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_JY47anClA

To my knowledge, that is the first and only 7500 rpm hydraulic roller FE in existence. If I would have had more camshaft, it would have went higher. 542 hp @ 7000, 539 @ 7300, and pulled to 7500 cleanly.

If I were to get away from Morels, I don't know who I'd use. I don't like Comp lifters as they require a heavier oil and have a reputation for not pumping up. Lunati and Howards lifters are made by Morel. Cranes are too heavy and frankly too expensive. I can buy a short travel Morel lifter at retail price and still have $100-150 left over for the price of a Crane...LOL


You should try the DM lobes some time. I had them designed specifically for engines like the Ford Cleveland. I did have a bad Morel hydraulic roller lifter one time last year in a small block Chevy but I've used quite a few of them without trouble except for that one.


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 Post subject: Re: 377C dyno results
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:05 am
Posts: 2603
Dave, I have several different lobes that work really well with Clevelands. Quiet, but make a lot of power.

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Brent Lykins, Lykins Motorsports
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com


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