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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:13 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:42 am
Posts: 16
Location: Graham, Washington
blykins wrote:
The factory 4V heads are no slouch. They are not TFS quality from the factory but with the right valve job they will get up and boogie.

I made 620 hp with a stock stroke, factory heads with good valves and our valve job, and a Strip Dominator. I spun it to 8000 to get there, but my point is that the heads work well and if you’re aiming for 550 hp, it would be much easier and much more reliable.

I was mainly questioning the how much lower rpm torque would be lost vs the tfs heads on the 359 build.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:05 am
Posts: 2566
Just depends on the camshaft but I wouldn’t expect it to be a radical difference. As a matter of fact, I can manipulate the camshaft specs to add quite a bit of torque.

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Brent Lykins, Lykins Motorsports
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:23 am
Posts: 994
Location: Texas
Brent
Quote:
I know big cubes sound cool, but in today’s world, with 4000 lb Challengers, Chargers, Camaros, etc, it’s easy to see what correctly applied hp will do.


This may be true but really these new engines cant be compared to our boat anchor stuff. Yes the cubes of the (LS) 4.8L, 5.3L and 5.7L (actually 345 cid) and the Dodge 5.7 Hemi (345 cubes) are similar in displacement but the actual physical size of these newer engines are larger and the technology if far superior. Hell look at the Coyote. only 302 cubes but has heads on it that will feed a 427 Cammer.

Personally, and I know Brent builds every day, with a 4000lb car I would not go anything less than 408 for a small block. Really I would only run a 460 or bigger in your particular type vehicle but that's me.

A 460 block will hold 1000hp in stock form. My buddy has a 460 in his 69 Mach 1 and lays down 650hp at the tires. Stock block, a worked set of Old Blue Thunder heads, solid roller cam and 12:1 compression with a old 1050 Dominator. If it was not such a pain in the ass, I would have built a 460 like his for less than my 359 Cleveland and would be deep in the 10's already- Just saying.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:33 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:53 am
Posts: 229
Likely cost you the same money for stroker kit as heads. You can play with header tube size and intakes and get you as good as spending money on trick flow. The stroker kit will pull harder on 4v head and get you where you wanna be. I put chi 4v on after the factory 4v and seen minimal gains. The tfs head wont get you much better than factory head till you cnc port them. But then you can port the stockers also. In a heavy vehicle cubes are your friend, thats why I ended up 434. A good 408 kit likely around 2200 us.Now if you want to scream the 357 to 7-7500 and by good rocker gear,valves etc. Then yes the small cube motor get you there also. But not practical on street if you plan driving any amount.


Last edited by Steve.k on Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:38 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:23 am
Posts: 994
Location: Texas
Brent
Quote:
I won’t say that I disagree, but I would say that your engine, Matt, with a little more cam would do what he needs to do. No need to spin it sky high.


Hey man, you spec'ed my cam so thats what I went with :D
Im happy with it though. I know it has more potential but for the rpm I was shooting for, she does what its suppose to. Im sure with a 393 or 408 and a different cam i should be closer to the 600hp but money just wasn't there. Oh well next time. I still need to get my new converter. Then I will see how scary it will be at full potential. :o


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:16 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:42 am
Posts: 16
Location: Graham, Washington
nova467spanker wrote:
Brent
Quote:
I know big cubes sound cool, but in today’s world, with 4000 lb Challengers, Chargers, Camaros, etc, it’s easy to see what correctly applied hp will do.


This may be true but really these new engines cant be compared to our boat anchor stuff. Yes the cubes of the (LS) 4.8L, 5.3L and 5.7L (actually 345 cid) and the Dodge 5.7 Hemi (345 cubes) are similar in displacement but the actual physical size of these newer engines are larger and the technology if far superior. Hell look at the Coyote. only 302 cubes but has heads on it that will feed a 427 Cammer.

Personally, and I know Brent builds every day, with a 4000lb car I would not go anything less than 408 for a small block. Really I would only run a 460 or bigger in your particular type vehicle but that's me.

A 460 block will hold 1000hp in stock form. My buddy has a 460 in his 69 Mach 1 and lays down 650hp at the tires. Stock block, a worked set of Old Blue Thunder heads, solid roller cam and 12:1 compression with a old 1050 Dominator. If it was not such a pain in the ass, I would have built a 460 like his for less than my 359 Cleveland and would be deep in the 10's already- Just saying.

The 460 route was thought about long ago and I decided not to. I even have a nearly new 466 in a truck that I crashed that would have been a cam change away from getting me where I want to be, I just wanted something different.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:19 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:42 am
Posts: 16
Location: Graham, Washington
Steve.k wrote:
Likely cost you the same money for stroker kit as heads. You can play with header tube size and intakes and get you as good as spending money on trick flow. The stroker kit will pull harder on 4v head and get you where you wanna be. I put chi 4v on after the factory 4v and seen minimal gains. The tfs head wont get you much better than factory head till you cnc port them. But then you can port the stockers also. In a heavy vehicle cubes are your friend, thats why I ended up 434. A good 408 kit likely around 2200 us.Now if you want to scream the 357 to 7-7500 and by good rocker gear,valves etc. Then yes the small cube motor get you there also. But not practical on street if you plan driving any amount.


Buying new heads is definitely not in the plan, I was just curious what the difference would be.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:28 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:42 am
Posts: 16
Location: Graham, Washington
I'm gonna have to start making some calls and doing some math to figure out what I can actually do $ wise. I'm sure I will be happier with the stroker as most seem to be suggesting. I was almost ready to pull the trigger on a kit from Molnar a few weeks ago but they are out of 4 inch cranks until August.

Are the newer Scat forged cranks balancing without mallory now? I have read couple threads about them being all over the map but that was several years back. Molnar told me that their counterweights are cam ground and will always balance without mallory. Scat seems to be the only ones that do not publish a target bobweight.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:57 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:53 am
Posts: 229
Im doing a small cube cleveland now for mud truck with cc iron heads and a small solid roller. Because of money constraints it will be small tube headers and dual plane intake and 750cfm carb. If we crack 500 I'll report back.We are going to dyno see where it falls.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:34 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:42 am
Posts: 16
Location: Graham, Washington
Steve.k wrote:
Im doing a small cube cleveland now for mud truck with cc iron heads and a small solid roller. Because of money constraints it will be small tube headers and dual plane intake and 750cfm carb. If we crack 500 I'll report back.We are going to dyno see where it falls.

Thanks, that will be interesting to see. Mine will probably be starting out with a 4 corner idle VS 750 that I had on my 460 in the truck until I get a proper carb.


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